Elevation Church and Idiocy at Easter.

[Tarheel Baptist]

Elevation Church Reveals Why They Don't Use Words Like ‘Resurrection’ On Easter Invites (Hint, It's a Terrible Reason)

Pro Church Tools recently sat down with Nicki Shearer, Elevation Church’s Digital Content Director. She is...

protestia.com

On the other hand, they aren’t being offensive….Sub could vote for them.

 

[ALAYMAN]

“A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.”--Spurgeon

 

[sword]

As long as they talk about the Gospel and the resurection during the service, I could care less what the marketing material says.

If I was having a old fashoned Hell Fire and Brimstone, preaching against sin, camp meeting I might not mention it in the community flyers.

I might say come hear the word of God preached at our old fashoned camp meeting. It will be all under the big tent in at the fairgrounds.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

As long as they talk about the Gospel and the resurection during the service, I could care less what the marketing material says.

If I was having a old fashoned Hell Fire and Brimstone, preaching against sin, camp meeting I might not mention it in the community flyers.

I might say come hear the word of God preached at our old fashoned camp meeting. It will be all under the big tent in at the fairgrounds.

Are you really this naive?

Would you tell people there was not going to be hellfire and brimstone preaching only to have them come and hear your hellfire and brimstone preaching? Can you say "Bait and Switch?" (I knew you could!) What do you think about those who pull such tactics on you?

This is "Finneyism" at its finest with preachers believing it is somehow "ON THEM" to get people to make a "decision" for Christ! They resort to all sorts of pragmatism and compromise in order to "reach" the lost!

Preach the word of God FAITHFULLY like you actually believe you will stand before God and give account for it!

Furtick will one day be cast into the lake-of-fire along with every single one of his false converts!

 

[AverageJoe]

Are you really this naive?

Would you tell people there was not going to be hellfire and brimstone preaching only to have them come and hear your hellfire and brimstone preaching? Can you say "Bait and Switch?" (I knew you could!) What do you think about those who pull such tactics on you?

This is "Finneyism" at its finest with preachers believing it is somehow "ON THEM" to get people to make a "decision" for Christ! They resort to all sorts of pragmatism and compromise in order to "reach" the lost!

Preach the word of God FAITHFULLY like you actually believe you will stand before God and give account for it!

Furtick will one day be cast into the lake-of-fire along with every single one of his false converts!

I wouldn't be going as far as saying Furtick is unsaved. I'm not a fan of his, nor will I ever be...but... He seemed to have a strong testimony of salvation. It seems to me, Ray, that you're getting to be just like those Pharisees we grew to hate so. You've got your opinion of his salvation, and who is or isn't saved...glad you don't decide.

 

[sword]

Are you really this naive?

Would you tell people there was not going to be hellfire and brimstone preaching only to have them come and hear your hellfire and brimstone preaching? Can you say "Bait and Switch?" (I knew you could!) What do you think about those who pull such tactics on you?

This is "Finneyism" at its finest with preachers believing it is somehow "ON THEM" to get people to make a "decision" for Christ! They resort to all sorts of pragmatism and compromise in order to "reach" the lost!

Preach the word of God FAITHFULLY like you actually believe you will stand before God and give account for it!

Furtick will one day be cast into the lake-of-fire along with every single one of his false converts!

Did I say anywhere I was going to lie or be mis-leading in any way.

If we have a free community car show at our church I don't promot we will be sharing the gospel with any who are interested or that we want people to visit our church or that we may put their name on our mailing list. I promote the event and the rest is to be expected. Article says he does not use certain words in his marketing material not in his service.

I'm not defending hm just commenting that your marketing material may be targeted to get people out to the service.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Did I say anywhere I was going to lie or be mis-leading in any way.

If we have a free community car show at our church I don't promot we will be sharing the gospel with any who are interested or that we want people to visit our church or that we may put their name on our mailing list. I promote the event and the rest is to be expected. Article says he does not use certain words in his marketing material not in his service.

I'm not defending hm just commenting that your marketing material may be targeted to get people out to the service.

Let's get this back to Apples-Apples shall we?

Having a free community car show is really cool! You could also have activities for the kids among other things. Fact of the matter is you advertized a "Car Show," they are expecting a car show and it would probably be unreasonable for you to "blow people out of the water" with hell-fire and brimstone preaching and hounding them about "getting saved" every time they turn around! I do think it would be reasonable for people to understand that the event is being held and sponsored by a church and that the reason for having the event is to promote said church and its related ministries right?

Furtick is talking about Easter (Resurrection) Sunday services at his church and is saying he will not be using terms like calvary, redemption, and the resurrection? Where is the gospel message without any of this? Remember, we are talking about an actual church service here! I would think that anyone coming to church (including non-church goers) on Easter Sunday are expecting a message about Christ's resurrection, about his death on Calvary, and the Redemption that is found in his finished work! If they are not interested in such things, they would likely go to the beach or park or something! you think you could persuade someone to come to your church if you promised not to talk about such things and if so, what is the point?

My ultimate point here is to be faithful to the message Christ has commanded us to proclaim and by all means promote it to the community! After that, let God draw those to your services whom he will and let the Holy Spirit perform his work!

 

[sword]

Let's get this back to Apples-Apples shall we?

Having a free community car show is really cool! You could also have activities for the kids among other things. Fact of the matter is you advertized a "Car Show," they are expecting a car show and it would probably be unreasonable for you to "blow people out of the water" with hell-fire and brimstone preaching and hounding them about "getting saved" every time they turn around! I do think it would be reasonable for people to understand that the event is being held and sponsored by a church and that the reason for having the event is to promote said church and its related ministries right?

Furtick is talking about Easter (Resurrection) Sunday services at his church and is saying he will not be using terms like calvary, redemption, and the resurrection? Where is the gospel message without any of this? Remember, we are talking about an actual church service here! I would think that anyone coming to church (including non-church goers) on Easter Sunday are expecting a message about Christ's resurrection, about his death on Calvary, and the Redemption that is found in his finished work! If they are not interested in such things, they would likely go to the beach or park or something! you think you could persuade someone to come to your church if you promised not to talk about such things and if so, what is the point?

My ultimate point here is to be faithful to the message Christ has commanded us to proclaim and by all means promote it to the community! After that, let God draw those to your services whom he will and let the Holy Spirit perform his work!

I read he said he would not use those words on his invite.

In a wide-ranging interview, Shearer explains that "while they may use certain phrases in church, Elevation Church doesn’t use words like “resurrection,” “calvary,” or “blood of Jesus” on its Easter invites". It was refering to their marketing not their preaching.

I don't read anywhere where he says they will not use those words in the service. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Good marketing on flyers and good preaching are two very different things. We don't put anywhere on our flyers " hard preaching on sin", but it's somewhat likely if they visit a few times they will hear hard preaching on sin.

Did he say they will not be preaching on “resurrection,” “calvary,” or “blood of Jesus”. maybe I missed it.

 

[Ransom]

In a wide-ranging interview, Shearer explains that while they may use certain phrases in church, Elevation Church doesn’t use words like “resurrection,” “calvary,” or “blood of Jesus” on its Easter invites, as that language will “immediately make someone feel like an outsider.”​

Well, on the one hand, they are outsiders.

On the other, if it's the outsiders you're trying to reach and draw into church, this is a sound strategy. Every group has its own jargon that sounds odd to outsiders, and it's an impediment to clear communication. I think "resurrection" is easily enough understood, even in a non-Christian context. But "Calvary" is distinctly church language that's been sanitized in the church, from its original negative connotation as a place of execution, into something fondly remembered. Why? You'd have to explain the missing context. And the "blood of Jesus" would mean nothing to a culture that has no connection to a sacrificial system.

Invite strangers to church and expect them to understand our jargon? You might as well be talking about Scientology.

And no, I won't be defending Stephen Furtick or Elevation Church any further than this in this thread.

 

[abcaines]

Not that such wording is required on an invitation, I would still have serious concerns about a church taking pains to point out that they are excluding certain words, especially, "resurrection".

 

[Ransom]

Not that such wording is required on an invitation, I would still have serious concerns about a church taking pains to point out that they are excluding certain words, especially, "resurrection".

If asked what "resurrection" meant, how would you define it?

 

[abcaines]

If asked what "resurrection" meant, how would you define it?

Rising from the dead.

 

[Ransom]

Rising from the dead.

Then if you were explaining to a nonbeliever, unfamiliar with church language, about what happened to Jesus on Easter, could you not say "Jesus rose from the dead" rather than "Jesus was resurrected"?

I would share your concern about churches deliberately avoiding theological language--particularly that which comes from the Bible itself, like "resurrection." But if your purpose is to invite nonbelievers to church, by all means use simple Anglo-Saxon words and save the Latin for Sunday school when they come back later. If they're going to stumble, let it be over the message that Jesus rose from the dead, instead of the big words.

 

[abcaines]

Then if you were explaining to a nonbeliever, unfamiliar with church language, about what happened to Jesus on Easter, could you not say "Jesus rose from the dead" rather than "Jesus was resurrected"?

I would share your concern about churches deliberately avoiding theological language--particularly that which comes from the Bible itself, like "resurrection." But if your purpose is to invite nonbelievers to church, by all means use simple Anglo-Saxon words and save the Latin for Sunday school when they come back later. If they're going to stumble, let it be over the message that Jesus rose from the dead, instead of the big words.

The majority of people understand the term resurrection. Resurrect or resurrection are not mystical $10 theological terms; they're used in common everyday English. Highly unlikely that someone is going to hear the term and say, "what is that?" You're more likely to hear someone say, "You believe in that?"

 

[Ransom]

The majority of people understand the term resurrection.

Sure, and I said as much earlier. While not the best example, it was at least a handy one that was already raised. Other cherished Christianese, though, requires more context. A stranger to church trying to sing "Take Me to Calvary" is going to be bewildered without some sort of glossary.

Highly unlikely that someone is going to hear the term and say, "what is that?" You're more likely to hear someone say, "You believe in that?"

And that's to be expected. "‭When they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked" (Acts 17:32). Again, as I said earlier, let the facts trip them up, instead of the vocabulary.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

I read he said he would not use those words on his invite.

In a wide-ranging interview, Shearer explains that "while they may use certain phrases in church, Elevation Church doesn’t use words like “resurrection,” “calvary,” or “blood of Jesus” on its Easter invites". It was refering to their marketing not their preaching.

I don't read anywhere where he says they will not use those words in the service. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Good marketing on flyers and good preaching are two very different things. We don't put anywhere on our flyers " hard preaching on sin", but it's somewhat likely if they visit a few times they will hear hard preaching on sin.

Did he say they will not be preaching on “resurrection,” “calvary,” or “blood of Jesus”. maybe I missed it.

I guess we have to realize we are no longer in an "Acts 2" world where the underlying tenants of Christianity and Judaism are clearly evident. We are definitely living in an "Acts 17" world or perhaps even beyond this!

Yes, when reaching the lost, we should never assume people are versed in the "Christianese" of which we speak. Instead of "Calvary," we can speak of the "cross" which is still part of the decorum in most churches today. We should carefully and patiently explain its significance to the Christian faith.

I think the best way to make things "Relevant" would be to address the question most would have: "Why is there all of this pain, death, suffering, and misery going on in the world?" We answer this by speaking of man's total depravity, that he is dead in trespasses and sins, everyone has gone his own way and that way which seems right to man is the way of death! If you can them to understand their sinful, fallen condition, perhaps they may understand the relevance and neccessity of the gospel message: that Christ died for our sins!

Such a message is quite offensive to an unregenerate man who is just trying to "Live his best life now," have a good marriage, raise his kids right, and make it to the next rung on the corporate ladder!

Sorry, but I do not see this as being Furtick's primary motive! He wants this man to come and feel at home, learn a bunch of great principles for marriage, family, and so forth without the discomfort and inconvenience of the Cross!

We do not want to be intentionally or unnecessarily "mean" about it but those who are outside of Christ need to be confronted with the truth and if they are offended and choose to never set foot in your church again, so be it! You have tried to give them the full counsel of God and your hands are now clean and free of their blood!